The tax is right and good. What is wrong is the rate. It is a net tax grab.
Three independent sets of respected economists should set the rate and it should be averaged as a starting point, then adjusted to replace the revenue lost by elimination of the PST. There should also be an efficiency bonus that is passed-on to the taxpayers.
This is a progressive tax (I don’t support progressive taxes) as higher earners pay more of it. Lower earners don’t consume as many “services” theirs are genarlly provided by Govermnment at no cost. That is another problem entirely!!!

It doesn’t get any better out east. Nova Scotia increased its HST to a fantastic 15%! And NDP premier Dexter had to amend the province’s balanced budget legislation just to table his budget. He did trim the civil service and reign in MLA spending allowances, but that might be too little to late as five MLAs have recently be reported to the RCMP for spending investigations. Good luck on the HST campaign.

My first reaction is that in Ontario, which has become a Liberal love-nest after decades of being Canada’s economic engines under Tory rule, is that many people are “accepting” the HST because it is being brought in by the McSpendy Lieberals.

“At least it’s not like the GST”, said one colleague. I wonder what he’s smoking - the GST replaced a hidden federal manufacturing sales tax that most people were not aware of, let alone aware of what items were hit with the tax, on top of which PST was appplied. At least the federal Conservatives made an effort to make the initial 7% GST “revenue neutral” vs. the old 13.5% FST in the first year of its application. The rebate cheques being promoted by Queen’s Park are a pathetic and likely expensive-to-administer joke as far as revenue neutrality goes.

The math is simple - if you broaden the base for a tax, the rate of that tax has to go down for anything close to revenue neutrality to occur. A HST makes sense, ultimately - but it needs to be revenue neutral in the first year of implementation. That was never tabled by Queen’s Park.

Ontarians seem happy to sit on their hands and let themselves be taxed more yet again by the McSpendy Lieberals. Having said that, Ontario Conservative Leader Tim Hudak has not presented any constructive commentary, let alone alternative, to what the Lieberals are on the verge of implementing.

More revenue from the taxpayers of Ontario so that their government can implement more spending. Look how well that’s worked for most European countries.

The governments of BC and Ontario can make this new harmonized sales tax, tax neutral by dropping the provincial portion of the tax to 2% so a combined rate equals the same as the old GST rate of 7% combined. I think the public would even tolerate a combined rate of 8% on all goods and services. The provincial govt of Ontario & BC will collect billions more on extra services & gas etc so they can well afford to drop the rate. This solution was proposed by Mr Keeyes in the PC leaders convention but unfortunatly he was not nominated as leader.
A combined tax makes sense for businesses who must deal with two very different tax collection systems as they now stand.

McGinty’s liberals are spending money like drunks so they think they can slip this increase through to cover their run away spending. I think the public is in for a big shock when it becomes a reality, but by then it will be too late.

I’m sure that they will reach their goal of attaining the necessary number of signatures. Unfortunately, the government is under no obligation to kill the HST and based on the BC Liberals previous history of listening to the people, we in BC will most likely be paying HST for Canada Day. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. The BC Liberal government is a majority government who is in it’s third term and feels unstoppable because voters have a short memory.

It is outrageous that the Provincial Gov’t went ahead implimenting this HST without discussion with the taxpayers by having it an issue on the last ballot. I will fight it. We pay more than enough taxes to fatten the politicians.

This is all under the guise of the HST recoil, but in reality it is to start another Party.All constituencies will be ready to go when the election is here.Its a smoke screen and most BC ers know it……..
Remember the province has the money from the Federal government WHICH they will have to pay back……………….if its cancelled.

The HST is just another tax grab from the government. I am totally against it. It is totally unfair not only to landlords who are now paying a lot more tax since it cannot be claimed back as an input tax credit but also to the end user who is paying more in taxes as well.

As a registered canvasser I have apoken to many people when signing the HST petition forms. I cannot recall so many being so mad against this proposed HST tax. Premier Gordon Campbell is in for good kick in the butt and deservely so.
Most governments shy away from petitions but not so with the BC Refederation Party, when elected, for it is part of their policy to have regular petitions as they do in Switzerland. See www.refedbbc.com

Really now, do you expect to have less or more taxes when governed by Liberals? What we need in British Columbia is a conservative political party instead of the existing ruling left of centre Liberals or the ‘heaven forbid’ radical left NDP.

No tax is a good tax - it’s just that simple. This “good tax” irresponsible mantra is also being sung by Ontario’s village idiot - Dalton McGuinty. Just open your wallets and happily pay more, because we’re building a “better Ontario.” If you disagree you’re a right wing extremist type and maybe we’ll have to send you to rehab. The fact that so many people believe his garbage is an indictment of the Ontario electorate (as if we need any more proof of the stupidity of the Ontario electorate).

I am afraid the inmates are in charge, here in Ontario and in BC. Makes me want to hurl.

The perception in politics, whether federal or provincial, is that politicians are elected to serve the people. Since when? Politicians are elected to serve a party with the only voice the people have is to complain to their MP or MPP, sign petitions, or get so fed up with the political system, stop voting.

When the sale of NB Power to Hydro Quebec failed the leader of the Conservative opposition stated something to the effect that democracy had taken place in New Brunswick. Another politician clearly making an untrue statement when democracy had nothing at all to do with the failed deal. To this day the premier, Shawn Graham, will state that the deal fell through because of further demands by Quebec that the premier could not accept. The deal did not fall through because the majority of the people of New Brunswick did not want to sell NB Power to Hydro Quebec. Shawn Graham was going to push the deal through regardless of how the people of New Brunswick felt about the deal and the premiers of Ontario and British Columbia are going to push the HST through regardless of how the people feel. I would be interested to know if there have been any MPPs from Ontario or British Columbia who have stated that they have gone to their constituents about the HST? If they have not then why have a so called democratically representative government if they have not represented their constituents in this matter? What our MPs and MPPs should be stating when running for office is that they want our vote so that they can represent the party they are running under.

Like so many stories involving taxation this one has seldom been well explained. Harmonizing tax provincial and federal sales tax regimes on the face of it should make sense and reduce costs of administration for both Governments, businesses and individuals as a result of the greatly improved synergies. The trick being pulled here by the provincial government is that the current 10% pst applies to far fewer goods and services than does the federal gst so when harmonization comes into play the provincial revenues jump considerably because of the broadened tax base. Tax payers are justifiably angry as this tax ‘windfall’ could have and should have been offset by a corresponding decease in the tax rate to keep the revenues neutral - but that didn’t happen. All the BC government still has to do is drop the provincial rate (say from 10% to 7%). If they did that most taxpayers were be content with the fact that there overall tax expense was not going to increase and the advantages of harmonization would accrue to the taxpayers themselves - where it belongs.

The HST will be implemented on Canada Day that’s a given. The fallout is what will be interesting. There is extreme disatisfaction with B.C.’s current government not only with their arrogance but with the costly policies on ‘green’ energy expenditures including Campbell’s green cooridor and the new very costly electricity generating commitments. The whole truth of the cost/benefit of these iniatives has not been explained as they ram the program down our throats.
There is some hope on the horizon as rejuvinating Conservative Party begins to look like an alternative. I just hope they can get their act together before the next election.

I think it is a crime that our politicians can get away with levelling more and more taxes on the taxpayers in Canada. Both the federal and the provincial government in Ontario have increased their public employees since they got in power and a huge increase to the taxpayers. Public employees earn somewhere in the vicinity of 35 % more than private workers and they receive more benefits, pensions and vacations all at the expense of the taxpayers. The federal govt. gave B.C. and Ont. $4.3 billion of our tax paid dollars to help the provinces implement the HST so we could be taxed more. Harper and McGinty should be thrown out of office. You cannot trust Government nor politicians. Local M P ’s folow the party line and they are of no assistance to local ridings.
We need a change of government and policies so that govt. works for the taxpayers and not for their own greedy ways.

The discussion should start with the fact that in BC was Passed the Referenda.Initiative and recall Act.
http://www.elections.bc.ca/index.php/referenda-recall-initiative/
It allows for the citizens to do just what they are. Taking the initiative to adjust the law (proposed) with which they disagree. The proposal must be considered by government and it (the question)could be put to a referendum. If it is ignored by government then there is the right of recall of members of the legislature. The terms and conditions to be succesful are onerous so it will be a first in Canada for this to succeed.

The HST itself is not a bad tax. The outrage is over it being rammed through without debate and with the fact that prior to the election there was a tacit suggestion by the liberals that they would not impliment such a tax. Also the tax base is widened to services which currently pay no tax. My personal possition is an annual increase of at least $500 a year on an income of 40,000. At $40 per month it kicks a hole in my budget.

The biggest issue is the arogance, spin and lies from the government benches. As the Fereral government used taxpayer money to bribe the Province to adopt the HST then they are not out of my x hairs either (telescope or binoculars not rifle)

This is a citizen’s response (the only legitimate one that they really have). It is a manifestation of Direct Democracy. BC is the only Canadian province (besides the three new territories) which permits this sort of citizen referendum.
Switzerland and 24 US states do it! And elsewhere. So should other provinces in Canada. But, the guideline for the petition must be easier (ten% from each riding is much too high a standard).
Please review my book - YOU Can Control Your Government - How to restore real democracy to the citizen - to find out how proper citizen referendums can be made to work - especially in such obvious cases as this one re the HST.
The government must be required to adhere to the democratic results - if the ultimate referendum passes. That is what true democracy is all about! That is in the current BC legislation.

The BC Liberals have an absolute sense of timing. Happy Canada Day to all as we celebrate the inception of the HST, this most hated and unfair tax brought in under the most deceitful manner. It is difficult to know whom to vote for in the next election, however, it is dead simple to know who not to vote for. Whether Campbell is still around or not he has damaged the party in my eyes. I blame not only the Premier but slso the spineless MLAs who blindly follow the party line whether they believe in it of not. Surely one of them would have had the guts to stand up and be counted when the role was taken. It is impossible for me to believe that every single one of them believed impicitly in the HST. It is not imp[ossible for me to believe that they value their jobs more.

We now have the GST at 5%, and the PST at 7%.
As of July 1, they will be combined into the HST at 12%.
One tax instead of two, and the same rate.
So why do you say we have more taxes????

I believe that with Premier Campbell’s large ego he will ignore the results
of the Stop the HST and will not call for a referendum. This will trigger
a Recall of the Premier which I hope will be extended to include a number
of his MLA’s.

“The HST itself is not a bad tax.”

All taxes are bad when they are over and above what we already pay to support our spendthrift governments.

That fourteen percent HST tax is actually the old manufacturing tax levied to the manufacturing sector. Lobbist are constantly finding ways to down load tax from Business to labour or the end user.There must be incentives for people to go into business, however there are many people caught between the devil and the deep blue sea! That being just below the bow of the boat. These are small independent business people who will never create enough excess capital to expand. What happens is that they contribute very little to the tax base and live off of tax exemptions. So in essence we have business,self employed and labour. Canada seems to go with what I term a blanket tax where everyone pays. The Americans seem to go for a user tax where the people using the service or goods pay the tax.Our concept of Government in a democracy seems to be blurred. Government is the law and empire of business and labour. Government handles law, security and maintenance. So the big question is, how much does it cost to run the system? The next question is how do we make everyone pay their porportionate share? The next question is, does Government represent business and labour equally or is business favoured? Is labour favoured? Does Canada have a false value on realestate,and manufactured goods due to the manipulation of supply and demand through regulation? Reality is that we are going to need to tighten our belts in order to compete in a global economy!

Barry

Thanks for your posting. You said in your posting that the combined rate is no more than exists now. Not so. There are hundreds of items that are now going to be taxed that were not taxed at all at the provincial rate of 7% in British Columbia. I promise you will notice this once July 1 hits. This will for sure be a tax grab from Premier Campbell’s crew!!

Again, keep posting to our blog- your comments are always welcome.

Peter Coleman
President and CEO
National Citizens Coalition

One reason given by Gordon Campbell for the HST is to correct the problems with BC’s sales tax. But the government controls the PST and has the power to remedy its shortfalls. Supporters of the tax say we will all benefit because the increased business opportunities will more than offset the increase in costs to the consumers. Tell that to the thousands of retirees in BC who will see more of their fixed incomes snatched away by a greedy government.

Tom T.

Why is there no initiative in Ontario to establish a petition against the HST, as they do in B.C.?

THE HST will add more revenue to the Province of Ontario and take, ultimately, more money from the residents of Ontario. As usual the government of the day cannot, simply cannot, live within its means. There is, as always, only one, I repeat one, tax payer. That one tax payer is slowly getting ground into fine dust. The Ontario government has a lot of bills comming due what with exploding health care and baby boomers retireing. Well, I as one of the tax payers have a lot of bills too and I must live within my means. Governments should too!

I am in the services industry as a small independant operator and recall vividly the introduction of the GST in the early 90’s. It was also the beginning of the consumer’s bent toward to supporting the underground econmony. I am offered, continually, to not charge the the GST if I am given cash. How much worse will it be with my tax item on the invoice reading 12% instead of 5%? As an honest business person, this will add a lot of stress to my dealings with my customers.

We have to stop buying!!! One day of NO PURCHASES, would close the Cities down. NO lunches, no fuel, no restaurants
, no movies. I hear you laughing. This is my plan. We have to stick together.
E Wagner

You either pay your taxes or prepare, like Greece, to cut your living standards by 30%; OR GO BANKRUPT and hope others will pay your way where you’ve lived irresponsibly!!!

For Barry’s information we have more taxes because for example, many things that farms buy for farm use are PST exempt but will not be under the HST. That increases the farmers cost which will be passed on to, for example restraunts that will have to increase their charges and they also will be non exempt in certain areas. That sort of amounts to tax on the tax. This goes on in such fashion in numerous sectors. The final consumer will be paying more as I see it.
When the NDP were finally seen as insensitive to voters real concerns and lost the government to the Liberals some years ago the MLA from our area said so and commented at a victory meeting that he wanted to know voters concerns so that his government would not meet the same fate. In the election before last they pushed a phony carbon tax on us before climate gate had informed citizens of the hoax. I protested to him and he said vote for us anyway and we will correct the problem after the election. I have not noticed the slightest effort to correct the matter. This last election they did not mention the HST but now they are forcing it through even with such a large public protest. The federal government has provided some money for the transcanada upgrade at the Port Mann bridge and despite the fact that gas taxes were put in place, to cover that, when I was a youth, they want to put a toll on the transcanada highway bridge.
These guys seem just as arrogant and insensitive as the NDP were and don’t deserve our support. We should always vote but in the future I am going to spoil my ballot with a no carbon tax, no HST written across it.

HST is simply a way of shifting the tax burden from producers to consumers. Because HST is progressive, like GST but unlike Ontario’s PST, for example, the tax remitted by a producer or merchant to the government is the difference between the tax collected and the tax paid out to other suppliers.

In theory, HST is supposed to be revenue neutral, merely shifting the tax burden from one place to another. However, if producers and merchants whose costs are reduced by the introduction of HST do not pass the savings on to the consumer, there will be an overall price rise, and this will be felt be everyone at all times. Whatever the reason behind the introduction of HST, politically it is a terrible move.

I suspect the real reason behind the introduction of HST in both Ontario and BC is that both the Federal and Provincial governments will get more money as a result. In other words, HST is just another tax grab. So what’s new?

Yesterday, I watched a bit of the U.S. primaries and saw that many of the U.S. politicians are being turfed out including a 30 year senator who switched party.

In Kentucky, Ron Paul’s son, Rand, after a large margin victory, advised the U.S.government to “watch out, we’re coming to take our government back”. This was said in the same breath that he reaffirmed being part of the Tea Party Movement. Many were deriding the Tea Party Movement but this was done by establishment people who cannot afford to see the system change for something that would serve the people. Well, guess what, the real people have had enough and are madder than a flock of wet hens. We are probably looking at some major changes in U.S. politics. The Tea Party Movement is becoming very relevant and has many established politicians of all parties shaking in their boots.

How long before the same thing starts up in Canada? How long will Canadians and B.C.’ers put up with being ignored by their servants? We are more tolerant for a longer period of time but after a while we lose patience and react with a vengeance. - we kick out the ruling party and elect another batch of people that will end up doing the same thing all over again. What we need is a different way of electing people and a different way to govern.

Right now, the less radical reform would be legislated free votes for MLA’s in the legislation and an effective recall procedure. Well, the cork is very close to popping. As the Americans demonstrate that they can start a peaceful revolution with their Tea Party Movement, we should pay more attention to what’s happening here at home - we have the makings of our own Tea Party Movement (TPM) in the beginnings of an uprising over the implementation of the H.S.T.

Bill Vander Zalm is helping to pop the cork… his H.S.T. petition could also trigger the formation of our own TPM right here in B.C.

If the Anti - H.S.T. campaign people go into MLA recall mode after this campaign, they then have all the tools to start a TPM, influence politicians of all parties, reform our electoral system and insure a way to get voters’ approval before any major legislation is passed.

Methinks that the “Zalm” is not finished stirring things up… and I’m starting to like what I see…

The HST is just another grab for power. Politicians exercising initiatives that they were never given by the electorate. The Ontario situation is the most contemptible. It ought to be the socio/political responibility of organizations such as NCC, to educate Canadians what Parliamentary Democracy is. Political Parties must present their agenda/platform to the electorate during a campaign. (Does anyone remeber the Federal Liberal’s Red Book?) As soon as he was elected in Ontario, McGinty proclaimed Ontario bilingual, in fact if not in name. And that is why he needed the extra money to develop segregated French only Health Care Health Clinics and all kinds of French only goodies. No I do not recall that he ever said he would do it but that is the crux of the problem. He knew that if he mentioned a bilingual province or the HST, he would not have been elected even with Tory’s unpopular denominational schools program. Here is a desperate need for Citizens’ Referendum and Recall. Who is going to put the bell on the cat? No mice in Ontario!

H.sikora

Hi Peter:

I think the HST stinks…am sure your Dad & my Geoffrey would agree…it will hit the poor people even harder than the economy is already doing…but how to stop it? If ever you are down this way, do stop in…it’s a very long time since I have seen you. Hugs. Judith

The principles behind the HST are good; however, because the HST has a much broader tax base the HST rate should not be arrived at by adding the GST and PST rates. The HST with the rates as proposed will not be revenue neutral but will generate considerably more revenue than the current GST and PST.

If the RATES FOR HST WERE SET TO BE REVENUE NEUTRAL to the current PST and GST I believe HST has several advantages - - such as:
1. The administration of one tax will have several administrative savings
2. People will have the opportunity to save the HST by doing some of their own service work
3. HST is a consumer tax. People with initiative will have the opportunity to save the HST by doing things for themselves. An example is buying groceries (no HST) and taking lunches to work rather than eating in a restaurant (charging HST.

Something I have not heard about but will increase costs for everyone.
Now, a small company with income of 30,000 or less does not need to charge and remit GST. People do not realize how many people have businesses they deal with that are in this category. Now these businesses will have to remit GST and PST so evryones cost went up a pure 11%.
My issue with this is that Registered Massage Therapy was taken off of MSP, not certain but probably 8 years ago. Between then and now they were deemed not a “medical” modality and as such had to pay GST (if income of more than $30,000.) I found a Therapist working only one day a week so I do not have to pay GST to keep my back in working order. (I know that pain killers or operations are free to us but if I can afford $90/week to be drug free at work, that is my choice). Now over $100, I don’t know, I may have to take Docs advice and get the operation?). Now this therapist as with all of these small businesses, they will have to be charging GST and PST.
How is that good for Small business?

Why have HST on vitamin pills which Doctors recommend? Also on gms and hockey , swimming pools , all the things to help keep us healthy and active. Dalton promised no tax increases. What does he call this? Most unfair to tax heating and electricity. The sooner we can vote him out of office the better. He is useless and dishonest.

Superbly illuinamtnig data here, thanks!